Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit Axel M.'s column >>

AXEL M.

Hello and welcome to the Fraudulent Climate of Hokum Science Blog Site.
Articles Posted: 0  Links Seeded: 58
Member Since: 8/2010  Last Seen: 1/31/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Lord Monckton Reports on The Climate Change Scare Machine

Seeded on Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:13 AM EDT
Read ArticleArticle Source: UKIP Scotland Blog
business, fraud, co2, carbon-tax, monckton
Seeded by Axel M.
Advertise | AdChoices

 

In this new video exposé on the Alex Jones Show, from Austin Texas, the irrepressible peer reports from his EU control room, on the latest plans of the Climate Change Stirrers.

How was an exaggerated scare, based on so little evidence, poor reasoning and petty name-calling, kept alive for two whole decades?

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • Axel M.'s Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: France , Ireland , Poland , United Kingdom , China , New Zealand , Canada , Australia , Birmingham, UK, Cardiff, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, London, Austin-TX, New York, Charleston/Huntington, Washington DC, Toronto
  • Public Discussion (10)
JackOL-1666973

Gee, Lord Monckton. Well, I guess I can ignore this (/sarc) -

http://www.nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf

  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:41 AM EDT
Axel M.

Of course this is the well known Aristotlean fallacy of logic :

Argumentum ad Verecundiam - Appeal to Authority - Argument from Authority
Translation: "Argument from respect/modesty" (Latin)

or Ipse Dixit (Translation: "He, himself, said it") (Latin)

A Quote…

"It is not what the man of science believes that distinguishes him, but how and why he believes it. His beliefs are tentative, not dogmatic; they are based on evidence, not on authority or intuition."

Source: Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy, p. 527.

  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:01 AM EDT
JackOL-1666973

Argumentum ad Verecundiam

Nope, you are wrong. I'm not arguing he is not correct simply based on his lack of knowledge, research, training on the subject. But rather, because he has been scientifically refuted by those who do have the knowledge, research, training on the subject.

Appeal to Authority - Argument from Authority

Uh, that actually belongs to your post regarding Lord Monckton -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Fallacious appeals to authority

Fallacious arguments from authority often are the result of failing to meet at least one of the two conditions from the previous section. Specifically, when the inference fails to meet the first condition, this is sometimes called an "appeal to inappropriate authority". This occurs when an inference relies on individuals or groups without relevant expertise or knowledge ...

In our case, Lond Monckton as compared to the most knowledgeable people from the most esteemed scientific academies from around the world.

A quote:

“Now repeat after me….without wands please….repeat after me, Riddikulus!”

Source: Professor Lupin in Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT
Axel M.

The original seed was a link to and a couple of quotations from the actual story at the UKIP Scotland Blog. My posting made no other comment than what was already to be seen at that webpage. However your comment contained no explanation other than a simple URL reference to a document which is an appeal to authority. No empirical repeatable experimental evidence is offered.

Worse still this is a complete red herring, so far as the originally seeded story is concerned. The main gist of Monckton's argument is that this is a political and fiscal matter, and that the "climate scare" as he calls it is but a mere instrument of opression which is causing millions of deaths worldwide.

Monckton again invites the audience to check the facts for themselves, and indeed upon doing so, I did find that there have been food riots, caused by diversion of land and food crops to create biofuels, which themselves consume more fossil fuels in creating them, than they actually produce as a result.

Again your scientific arguments are fatuous, and largely irrelevant, since as Monckton points out, this is a Political and Financial issue, and most likely a fraudulent one at that. See the videos, check out the claims, and read the UK Fraud Act. People made claims "knowing them to be, or might be, untrue or misleading". As a result, people have "made a gain for themselves or another", people have been "subject to a loss or the risk iof a loss". This is the definition of fraud in the UK.

The National Academy's, or indeed Lord Monckton's personal "knowledge" is unimportant in the final analysis. It is the Facts, based upon repeatable empirical Evidence which count. Monckton invites You All to check the facts which he informs you exist, whereas the National Academy and indeed other such organisations, tend to obfuscate the facts by using a barrage of unsubstantiated rhetoric, and other Aristotlean errors of discourse.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:40 AM EDT
JackOL-1666973

However your comment contained no explanation other than a simple URL reference to a document which is an appeal to authority.

I see no reason to repeat myself. I cited a website where the top scientific bodies from across the world state that climate change is a scientific fact. Their declaration has weight behind it. Lord Monckton's assertion is simply a crank conspiracy theory.

as he calls it is but a mere instrument of opression which is causing millions of deaths worldwide.

Crank conspiracy theory - need I say more?

Monckton again invites the audience to check the facts for themselves, and indeed upon doing so, I did find that there have been food riots, caused by diversion of land and food crops to create biofuels, which themselves consume more fossil fuels in creating them, than they actually produce as a result.

None of this is, even if one accepts the jumps in logic, changes the scientific fact that climate change is true. There is overwhelming consensus in the scientifc community that man-made causes for climate change have been happening in the recent past and are continuing to happen - with disasterous consequences. Whether some of the remedies cause problems does not affect these facts.

Again your scientific arguments are fatuous, and largely irrelevant,

Well sure, if you say so. Who am I to consider the facts as presented by the leading scientific academies in the world over your, hmmm, opinion?

since as Monckton points out, this is a Political and Financial issue, and most likely a fraudulent one at that.

Gotta love conspiracy theorists. The only mindset which allow one to deny facts placed right in their face. It's all a LIE because it's a CONSPIRACY!

The National Academy's, or indeed Lord Monckton's personal "knowledge" is unimportant in the final analysis.

Now, as you lose all credibility...

(BTW - that would be National Academies from around the world.)

It is the Facts, based upon repeatable empirical Evidence which count.

Yep, and they are all on the side of climate change is real.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:03 PM EDT
Axel M.

Sadly you are repeating yourself and offer no new arguments of ANY empirical evidence or repeatable experiment with data to back up your assertions. You speak as if you, yourself are in fact a member of the "National Academy" and actually understand what is in that document you quote from. The document itself offers no empirical evidence to back up what you (and they) maintain. The logical conclusion that you (and they) draw from what is presented is false.

Whilst neither I, nor I believe Lord Monckton, deny that the climate changes, as it has done for 4.5 Billion years (billions of years before man even existed as a species), we both take issue with the illogical conclusion that man has had in the last fifty years some catastrophic effect on it which superceeds the gargantuan natural planetary & cosmic forces.

Monckton points out that there are other reasons for wanting to control energy and food production. Those reasons are well reported in past Human history, in numerous texts from even as far as early Roman & even Assyrian, Babelonian and Mongol Empire times. For you to remark that such suggestions are a "conspiracy theory", only goes to show your ignorance and lack of knowledge on these subjects.

Yes there may be a conspiracy (A plot to carry out some harmful or illegal act - especially a political plot), and yes Lord monckton has a theory (A well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of an organized system) about that. So then it is indeed a conspiracy theory, was that meant to be an insult?

Can I recommend that you view the following video by Dr. W. Soon, a Reseacher in Solar Physics, and Climate Change. In this lecture to a group of Academics, and Reseachers he explains that the Sun is mostly responsible for climate changes we see here on Earth.

The View from Galileo's Window - the Sun, the CO2 Monster, and Earth's Climate.

  • 1 vote
#1.5 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:50 PM EDT
JackOL-1666973

Sorry. I'm not interested in your wacko conspiracy theory. It's boring.

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:18 PM EDT
Axel M.

Well Mr. "Jack O Lantern", this is what we have come to expect from the likes of you. You are prepared to just dash of some snide comment backed up by a passing reference to a six years old opion piece by some so called authoritative source. However when this is challenged, then you have no answer other than to rehash this tired old paradigm.

When it is pointed out that your argument is fatuous, and indeed irrelevant, you again then resort to petty analysis of some insignificant points, and then resort to the old battle cry of "conspiracy theorist", without even knowing what that actually means.

Even when it is pointed out to you the meaning of the phrase (and it was you who wrote that), you then retort that you are "not interested". You refuse to even view a short lecture with slides which would go a long way to explaining to you how the Earth/Sun?CO2/Climate system works in practice, and indeed points out a number of instances of fraud within the so called "evidence" used by the UNIPCC.

You refuse to look at any contrary evidence to your own personal theory, and now claim that you are bored. It is a sad endightment on our educational system, however I am not going to delete your name calling and ad hominem remarks. They will be left for all to see just how egregious you and your ilk really are.

  • 1 vote
#1.7 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:27 PM EDT
JackOL-1666973

this is what we have come to expect from the likes of you.

Exactly, this is what I have come to realize regarding conspiracy theorists. They deny facts and chalk up any evidence to the contrary as another conspiracy. The conspiracies never end and the denial is unshakeable.

Nothing will satisfy a conspiracy theorist once a "conspiracy" has taken hold.

BTW - note how no one else is interested in the wacko conspiracy.

Detracking.

  • 2 votes
#1.8 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:34 PM EDT
Axel M.

What a load of old pompous baloney that is Mr. Jack O' Lantern. It is literally hokum.

Not once did you offer any empirical evidence to the contrary of what Lord Monckton claimed during his video exposé on the Alex Jones Show, which is what this posting was actually about.

Instead you chose to foist your own narrow view that so called "academies" must be right about their own theories of climate change, simply by virtue of being in that exalted position, and even quoting from a childrens' magic storyteller, J.K.Rowling.

You failed to understand that even though the title of the article is "Lord Monckton Reports on The Climate Change Scare Machine", that the main thrust of his argument was that the "machine" is not a scientific one, but instead a political, financial, and barbarous one. Still you continued to offer so called "scientific" arguments, but again with zero empirical evidence to back up what you claimed.

When it was suggested that you watch a video by Dr. Soon, and again he explains not only the science, but also the political aspect, by invoking the story of Galileo, and how he was treated when his empirical evidence went against the considered majority view at that time. This is an important episode in science history, but you denigrate this and call it a "wacko conspiracy theory". This is a debasement of empirical science that is hard to comprehend.

Still you continue to use the phrase "conspiracy theory" as an intended insult, even after it was explained to you what these words actually mean. In your latest diatribe you embarrass only yourself, as you throw in the old "denier" accusation with all it's overtones. Well I don't suppose you even know that virtually nobody is denying that climate change exists and is happening as it always has happened in the last 4.5 billion years since our planet was born.

As usual when an alarmist is losing the argument, you run away to mutter under your breath.

Ladies and Gentlemen, please do watch those videos, read The United Kingdom Fraud Act 2006, and the associated report by Australian climate researcher, Joanne Nova. See the evidence for yourselves, and then you decide what is true and what isn't.

Lord Monckton is right to call for criminal prosecutions, if as a result of false prospectuses offered by tainted "scientists", people suffered a loss or were subject to a loss. If promoters of misleading advice to Governments resulted in those persons "having made a gain for themselves or another", then according to UK Staute Law, there would seem to be a Prima Facie case of Fraud. Of course this is all over the head of the blinkered ideas, of writers like Mr. Jack O'Lantern, whose analysis is as obviously false as his name.

QED

  • 1 vote
#1.9 - Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:39 PM EDT
Reply
Leave a Comment:
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
(XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
Newsvine Privacy Statement
As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
FUN STUFF:
  • Leaderboard |
  • E-Mail Alerts |
  • Top of the Vine |
  • Newsvine Live |
  • Newsvine Archives |
  • The Greenhouse |
COMPANY STUFF:
  • Code of Honor |
  • Company Info |
  • Contact Us |
  • Jobs |
  • User Agreement |
  • Privacy Policy |
  • About our ads
LEGAL STUFF:
  • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
  • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
  • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com